episode 3: Taylor Swift Psyops

[00:00:00] CLIP - Alison Steinberg (One America News):
Isn't it interesting she just so happens to be dating Kansas City Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce, better known as Mr. Pfizer, oh who's now also going to the Super Bowl, which is sponsored by you guessed it, Pfizer.

[00:00:15] CLIP - Jesse Watters Fox News:
Well, around four years ago the Pentagon's Psychological Operations Unit floated turning Taylor Swift into an asset during a NATO meeting. What kind of asset? A psyop for combating online misinformation.

[00:00:30] CLIP - Jake Tapper CNN:
The Trump campaign has actually commented on this and indulged this thing. What do you make of it?

[00:00:39] CRISTEN:
Welcome to Conspiracy She Wrote, the podcast that will not shake it off when it comes to women and conspiracy theories. I am your host, Cristen Conger.

You just heard Alison Steinberg on OAN (One America News) followed by Fox News pundit Jesse Watters and Jake Tapper on CNN. For a couple of weeks leading up to the 2024 Super Bowl, a totally bogus conspiracy theory made the media rounds like a pop star going on a press tour. It was everywhere and it went a little something like this: Taylor Swift and my fellow podcaster Travis Kelce were all a set up to get Joe Biden reelected via some kind of Super Bowl brainwashing? I don't know.

That MAGA-pilled Super Bowl fever dream is basically today's whole conspiracy-spiked culture in a nutshell. It's got politics, pop culture, and of course celebrity, all flattened and mixed into clickbait. And you get every major media outlet across the political spectrum covering it. But also though, why Taylor? Sure, she has massive star power and such huge reach that even fake news about her makes headlines. But what is it really about her celebrity that's put her in the eye of not one but two major right-wing conspiracy storms?

[00:02:43] BRIAN DONOVAN:
Some of the same people that are making that claim, people that held her up as some kind of avatar of Aryan white womanhood, years ago now think that she is some secret psyop.

[00:02:57] CRISTEN:
More on that in a moment. But first, we gotta talk about Swifties too. For years they've sleuthed out clues that Taylor is known to leave for them. So why has their shared pastime of Easter egg hunting left some Swifties labeled conspirators?

[00:03:29] BRIAN DONOVAN:
I will admit to being kind of more of a bandwagon Swifty in that I really only got deep into the fandom around the pandemic era of 2020.

[00:03:39] CRISTEN:
Brian Donovan is a sociology professor at the University of Kansas. There he teaches a class on the sociology of Taylor Swift and is the faculty advisor of the Swift Society Student Club. His forthcoming book is Swifties: Anatomy of a Fandom.

[00:03:59] BRIAN DONOVAN:
And I would say as a guy that's in the fandom, uh, that is also a kind of unique experience in insofar as it is a very woman-centered fandom. But I would also say that I'm, I've been trying to read every bit of academic writing about Taylor Swift and her fans too, and so sometimes I'm wearing my academic hat and trying to analyze the Swifty fandom from a kind of scholarly or social scientific perspective. Other times I just want to be a fan and talk about my favorite songs and, you know, what I'm excited about and what are the kind of upcoming things that we can expect on the new album and things like that.

[00:04:41] CRISTEN:
What does Taylor Swift have to do with sociology?

[00:04:47] BRIAN DONOVAN:
Sociology is the study of groups and what people do in groups, and Taylor Swift just created such a massive fan base that it's hard not to see her fandom through a sociological lens because the Swifties have created a group culture of their own. And they engage in all sorts of fascinating meaning-making practices, the creation of hierarchies and subgroups within the fandom. For me, the Taylor Swift fandom is a very rich sociological terrain.

[00:05:26] CRISTEN:
Before we get into more of the fun stuff with Swifties and all of these hierarchies and all of that, I want to start on the darker end of the spectrum. So going back to 2016, around then, why did Taylor Swift have a Nazi problem?

[00:05:49] BRIAN DONOVAN:
Taylor Swift had a Nazi problem because she was very muted about her politics. She came up in the country music world, which has traditionally had a right-wing tilt to it, and she was cautioned to be silent about her politics or to keep her politics to herself. And in that void, elements of the right wing co-opted her celebrity persona and pretended as if she was one of them. 

They created memes and stories about how she was a secret white nationalist. Her songs until the release of her album Lover were very apolitical. She has a kind of radiant whiteness about her, a kind of girl-next-door Midwestern or Southern ethos that I think fit the mold of what some figures on the alt-right see as the apotheosis of womanhood. She kind of fit that mold, uh, as someone who had, for lack of a better word, sort of Aryan qualities to her.

[00:07:03] CRISTEN:
The made-up conspiracy theory was that Taylor Swift was a covert Nazi, using her music to red pill America into a race war. Basically a Mad Libs of alt-right buzzwords.

[00:07:19] BRIAN DONOVAN:
Figures from the Gamergate controversy like Milo Yiannopoulos and real-life Nazis like Andrew Anglin circulated images of her donning Nazi apparel and things like this. And that created a crisis for her team. And I think that was part of the reason that she basically broke her political silence and came out as supporting left-wing causes.

[00:07:49] CRISTEN:
And like you said, this was a conspiracy theory and internet propaganda basically coming from a very extreme end of the political spectrum. You know, some of these spaces were extremely fringe. Why do you think that it reached the level that Swift and her team were not only aware of it but needed to do something about it?

[00:08:19] BRIAN DONOVAN:
The right-wing cooptation of Taylor Swift and her celebrity persona raised this question of is she secretly a white nationalist? It raised this question about her politics. And that ambiguity, I think, left this space open where people didn't feel like they could be full fans of hers. They didn't feel like they could identify as a Swifty if her political stance was left unresolved. And I think that's what prodded her and her team to make a more forceful stance on political issues. It led to arguably the creation of the Miss Americana documentary, which is a documentary that gives a behind-the-scenes look at Taylor Swift but it's also a forceful statement about where she stands politically.

[00:09:14] CLIP - MISS AMERICANA documentary:
Throughout my whole career, label executives would just say a nice girl doesn't force their opinions on people. Nice girl smiles and waves and says thank you. I became the person everyone wanted me to be. I want to do this. I need to be on the right side of history.

Taylor Swift broke her silence on politics over the weekend. I feel really good about not feeling muzzled anymore. And it was my own doing.

[00:09:46] BRIAN DONOVAN:
Her politics are fairly mainstream DNC, maybe, you know, left of center. I think she has done a number of important and notable things. She gave $113,000 to pro-LGBTQ advocacy groups. She worked for signatures for the Equality Act. She boosted voter turnout in Tennessee and she has more recently come out against the Dobbs decision. She's come out against Confederate monuments and she has done, I think, a lot of notable political actions, but nothing that could be construed as radical or far-left, fairly mainstream positions.

[00:10:35] CRISTEN:
Now, isn't it all remarkable that there has been this kind of about-face of like, you know, eight or so years ago you have the alt-right saying, oh, we worship Taylor Swift because she is our Aryan queen. And now you have, coming from a similar, if not like the same space on the far-right end of the political spectrum, saying, oh, actually she's a left-wing psyop.

[00:11:05] BRIAN DONOVAN:
Right, right. It is remarkable and it's some of the same people too that are making that claim. And the other flip-flop that is interesting here too is that during the time when elements on the far right were trying to co-opt her celebrity persona and claim that she is one of them, she was criticized by feminists, particularly the feminist blogosphere, in blogs like Feministing or Bitch Media that were arguing that she is basically setting back womanhood by writing these heteronormative songs about romance and about boyfriends and men and breakups and things like that. And if you are a fan of Taylor Swift, there is this sense that it's hard for her to do anything right, that whatever she does she's going to get criticism for it from one side of the political aisle or the other.

[00:12:05] TRAVIS KELCE:
I think we both love what we do. Um, and, uh, you know, any chance that I can, you know, show my support to her and knowing that she's shown me all the support in the world throughout the season. Um, it's just been an amazing experience, you know, getting to know Tay. I think she's at Wembley eight times, which is mind-blowing that she can do that many shows, uh, in one stadium and fill that thing up. You know, I gotta go support.

[00:12:29] CRISTEN:
Has it made any difference at all, like in this whole narrative, that she is also very publicly dating an NFL star? Like, how could Republicans hate that, Brian?

[00:12:45] BRIAN DONOVAN:
I think that deepens the sense of betrayal. That she is, in some ways, fulfilling this all-American heteronormative script of being the pop star falling in love with a football star. And there's this idea among some elements of the right that they own that narrative. That is their story to tell. And so by not being on their team, it deepens this idea that she has somehow betrayed herself, maybe betrayed her race by doing all these things. 

But also, I would note that she is 34 and she is unmarried, doesn't have children, and is a billionaire. And to put it in the context of the kind of racist nationalism, she is in a sense, in their eyes, contributing to this kind of race suicide dynamic whereby she is this incredibly successful, talented person but is not reproducing herself, is not contributing to this broader project of white nationalism. And I think that that is why they've been targeting her so heavily the past several months.

[00:14:05] CRISTEN:
The Biden campaign has also had its sights trained on Taylor in the hopes, of course, that she will endorse him, which does beg the question, can Taylor Swift truly influence a presidential election? That's after the break.

[00:14:34] AD BREAK 1

[00:14:34] CRISTEN:
We're back with Swifty sociologist Brian Donovan. Obviously, Taylor Swift has a tremendous amount of cultural power and influence, and conspiracy theories, you know, they're all about power. How would you describe what kind of actual political power she has?

[00:15:02] BRIAN DONOVAN:
Her political power is complicated and easily overstated. When she speaks about voter turnout or get out the vote, she can generate a lot of activity. Several months ago, she posted something about getting out the vote on her Instagram page, and 65,000 people registered to vote within a 24-hour period. But in terms of tangible political outcomes, I think we have to be very cautious in what we claim. Obviously, Biden sees an endorsement from her as a key resource. And the Republicans see a threat in that as well, but how that will play out remains to be seen.

[00:15:57] CRISTEN:
Do you see the political conspiracy theories, the right-wing red-pilling and left-wing psyop of it all, as harmful? In any real kinds of ways?

[00:16:10] BRIAN DONOVAN:
I think they're harmful on a broad basis because they are leading people to doubt the reality of their own perception. They're leading people to doubt what they see with their own eyes. I think that is one of the dangers of conspiracy theories. More generally, once they get into the public consciousness, they have a half-life that is far longer than it should be and it creeps up in bizarre and unpredictable ways.

[00:16:48] CRISTEN:
I am so curious what Swifties think about this latest round of anti-Taylor conspiracy theories. Do they pay it any mind at all?

[00:17:02] BRIAN DONOVAN:
We have more important things to do as Swifties, like talk about what the surprise song she played, you know, at the last tour stop or what songs are going to be on the new album. Or you know, what earring she was wearing and does, do those earrings indicate that she is going to release, you know, Reputation Taylor's Version anytime soon. I think these conspiracy theories are more of a distracting sideshow that very few are taking seriously and honestly very few are offended by. And even though these theories are attacking her, they are creating greater solidarity among the Swifties because, you know, we can all agree about how ridiculous these conspiracy theories are.

[00:17:47] CRISTEN:
But while there is solidarity among Swifties, the massive fandom isn't a monolith. 

As Brian has observed in his research, it's made up of various overlapping communities. For instance, there are the OGs, the debut Swifties as in fans since her first self-titled album in 2006. Then there are Swifties who congregate by eras. Your Reputation Swifties, Folklore Swifties, etc. And other Swifties find each other through their shared identities that map onto the fandom, such as neurodivergent Swifties and Swifties of color. 

Aside from their love of Taylor Swift and her music, there's something else that bonds these various communities within the fandom. Here's Taylor Swift talking about it herself on The Tonight Show.

[00:18:53] CLIP - TAYLOR SWIFT THE TONIGHT SHOW:
Yeah, it's sort of a tradition that we started a very long time ago. I think the first time that I started dropping sort of cryptic clues and things in my music was when I was, I was 14 and 15 putting together my first album. 

And so that's when it started, but when it got out of control was when I started to realize that it wasn't just me that had fun with this, that they had fun with it too. And then all I started thinking of was how do I hint at things? Like how far is too far in advance? Can I hint at something three years in advance? Can I even plan things out that far? I think I'm gonna try to do it. We did a crazy video like that. It was a video called...

[00:19:30] CRISTEN:
How are Easter eggs? How are Easter eggs part of the whole Taylor Swift experience?

[00:19:35] BRIAN DONOVAN:
Yeah, I'm glad you asked that because that ties in with the conspiracy theory discussion as well. So other artists, you know, leave Easter eggs for their fans, but Taylor Swift has turned it into an art, and it's something that she has been doing since the earliest days of her career. 

In her first album, the self-titled Taylor Swift album that fans refer to as Debut, she capitalized certain letters of specific words in the liner notes, and the capitalized words spelled out a message to her fans. And I've talked to those OG Swifties who decoded those messages, and they said that it felt like Taylor Swift was speaking directly to them, that she was leaving a message specifically for them. 

And ever since then, she has left Easter eggs in a variety of formats. Some of these will be clues in a music video. Other Easter eggs are signals about what she's going to do next. And those Easter eggs are especially important to Swifties. Swifties refer to the decoding of the Easter eggs as clowning, and kind of embedded in that term is this recognition that most of the theories are wrong and that most of the reading of the Easter eggs that Swifties do are clowning themselves by making these theories that are often proven to be incorrect. 

But I think clowning and the hunting for Easter eggs is another form of collective joy that Swifties engage in. And it's a way that Taylor Swift cultivates these parasocial relationships with her fans, where it seems like she is speaking directly to us and giving us messages that only we can decode.

[00:21:37] CRISTEN:
Which, you know, to a lay listener sounds a little bit conspiracy theory-esque.

[00:21:45] BRIAN DONOVAN:
I think the key difference in the conspiracy theories that tend to be toxic or malevolent and the types of, I guess you might call them micro conspiracy theories that the Swifties engage in by clowning or looking for Easter eggs is that there is a self-awareness among the Swifties about what they're doing and even self-mockery keeps it on the playful side. No one is getting too angry when their theories are incorrect, and no one is making enemies when, you know, someone else in the fandom has a theory that goes against their theory.

[00:22:27] CRISTEN:
But there is an exception, and it's garnered a lot of attention from outside the fandom too.

[00:22:36] BRIAN DONOVAN:
If you were to point to the most contentious conversation in the fandom, it would definitely be the conversation around the Gaylor theories.

[00:22:47] CRISTEN:
Gaylor is a mashup of gay and Taylor. In a nutshell, the Gaylor theories posit that Taylor Swift and her music are queer, but the music industry has forced her to keep it off the record for fear of tarnishing her public image and hurting record sales. In other words, because homophobia.

[00:23:12] BRIAN DONOVAN:
And if you look at kind of toxic fan behavior that is, you know, um, harassment or doxxing, you're going to see those moments around those conversations about the Gaylor theories and the conflict between the Gaylors and the so-called Hetlers.

[00:23:31] CRISTEN:
Hetler as in the mashup of hetero and Taylor.

[00:23:35] BRIAN DONOVAN:
And sociologically, it's kind of remarkable that this group of fans have emerged in what is, in general, a very mainstream heteronormative fandom.

[00:23:48] CRISTEN:
Or maybe it's not so remarkable?

[00:23:52] Leah Dajches:
Something that I always think is a little, maybe it's ironic, is when you're talking with queer individuals who, you know, are largely underrepresented in the mainstream media, we naturally look for queer codes in the media to find characters that are like us.

[00:24:08] CRISTEN:
Dr. Leah Dajches is a media psychologist and starting this fall will be an assistant professor at New Mexico State University. Leah is also a co-editor and contributor of the upcoming book Fandom in Marginalized Communities: Rethinking Media Effects and Fans.

[00:24:29] Leah Dajches:
We look for queer codes when we're out in our everyday life to find people who are part of the community like us. So when we have a media entity who's essentially saying, "I'm really leaving codes or Easter eggs in my music, go ahead and find them," and then you have this community who is so innately very naturally good at hunting around for subtle, nuanced Easter eggs, pieces of evidence, codes, whatever you'd like to call it, it kind of creates that perfect storm.

[00:24:59] CRISTEN:
When we come back, we're heading into the eye of that perfect storm known as Gaylor.

[00:25:19] AD BREAK 2

CRISTEN:
We're back.

[00:25:29] Leah Dajches:
In academia, you'll find that many of us openly admit that our research is often what we call "me search."

[00:25:29] CRISTEN:
I wanted to talk to Leah Dajches about her me search on Taylor Swift. Specifically, the 2022 study she co-authored with Jennifer Stevens Aubrey titled Queer Folklore. The study examined relationships between Swifty's queer decodings of Taylor Swift's album Folklore and their own sexual identity development and acceptance of other people's identities.

[00:25:54] Leah Dajches:
In the study for Folklore, we found that some fans were envisioning that these songs were about Taylor and Karlie Kloss, but we also found that some fans were envisioning new characters. They were playing with, you know, Taylor has a trio of songs: "Betty," "August," and "Cardigan." And so they were taking James and Betty and they were reinterpreting, they were framing that as a queer relationship. 

So in that sense, they weren't necessarily shipping Taylor in a relationship with anyone, but they were creating queer relationships. They were shipping them within the song narratives.

[00:26:31] CLIP - “BETTY” BY TAYLOR SWIFT:
Betty, I won't make assumptions about why you switched your homeroom, but I think it's because of me. Betty, one time I was riding on my skateboard when I passed your house. It's like I couldn't breathe.

[00:26:51] Leah Dajches:
What largely inspired the queer folklore study was from my own experiences as a closeted queer kid growing up and how I found myself naturally reinterpreting, rescripting, rereading mainstream media to fit or better align with my experiences as a queer individual. And so as a Taylor Swift fan, I'm a diehard Swifty. I naturally was doing these behaviors in Taylor Swift's music. I grew up with her.

[00:27:24] CRISTEN:
Leah is a queer diehard Swifty who grew up queering Taylor Swift. So does that make Leah a Gaylor?

[00:27:31] Leah Dajches:
Gaylor is a divisive term, and I don't even know if I would necessarily classify myself as a Gaylor. I think a lot of fans tend to shy away from it because of these negative connotations, you know, connecting with a conspiracy theory or receiving backlash from Hetlers. And I really wanted to expand this study to be inclusive for fans who identify in various ways.

[00:28:01] CRISTEN:
Gaylors are often kind of described as conspiracy theorists, that this is a conspiracy theory. I'm curious what you think of that description.

[00:28:14] Leah Dajches:
To be honest, I've gotten this question before, and I always kind of like squirm a little bit when I get asked this because absolutely, if I were to look up the definition of a conspiracy theory, Gaylor could technically fit under the definition of a conspiracy theory. 

But I find that personally there is such a negative connotation with ideas surrounding conspiracy theories, and Gaylor is so much more than simply trying to prove or disprove Taylor Swift to be part of the queer community. The intention behind it is more than trying to nudge someone into maybe identifying with the community or not. It's more than I think just wanting to be right about that. 

What we see is Gaylor becomes almost idolized, this kind of space for queer individuals to gather. And what we find is when those queer individuals create that sense of community, whether it's about Taylor Swift, whether it's about Harry Potter, that's where we start to see the benefits. When they can find social support from other individuals who are like-minded, who have similar ideas to them, we see positive effects for their processing, their understanding of themselves. 

So although at the baseline if we look at the definition, sure, you could correlate or identify Gaylor as a conspiracy theory. I personally do not like to because I believe that the intention behind it from the fans is more deeply rooted in finding positive ways to engage with this media content, finding others within their community, and doing so with such a popular icon in the industry who is ultimately, I believe by perceiving Taylor Swift to be queer, helping to validate those fans' experiences. And then they come together, they talk about it, they find experiences and feelings of social support from other fans, and that's where we start to see positive effects occurring for those individuals.

[00:30:26] CRISTEN:
And why do you think that Hetlers seem to take so much umbrage at Gaylors who are finding this kind of positive community?

[00:30:39] Leah Dajches:
That's a great question. You know, and as I'm sure everyone realizes now, I am not a Hetler. I don't feel confident that I can speak to necessarily the core reasonings behind it. 

The only thing that really I would maybe attempt to theorize or sum it up to is this idea of in U.S. society. What we see in the mainstream is still an underrepresentation or an inaccurate representation of the LGBTQ+ community. We are unfortunately living in a time where we are seeing legislation going through our government that is putting restrictions on queer identities, queer bodies, putting us in this negative light. 

So for individuals who maybe grew up firmly rooted within cisgender heteronormative beliefs and those values, seeing this community trying to take power, have their voice heard through such a popular icon, likely creates a sense of discomfort. You know, we call this cognitive dissonance. Mentally, they're feeling uncomfortable because Taylor Swift belongs maybe to them. It's somebody who they've also grown up with, who's had their back, who's supported them. 

So to see somebody who's often othered, who's of a different community, maybe trying to use Taylor Swift for their community, right? Gaylors coming together to create that community around Taylor Swift. I can imagine it creating some negative thoughts, some discomfort. And obviously, when we have cognitive dissonance, naturally as humans, we want to do whatever we can to reduce it. We don't want to be in that uncomfortable state. So that's when we're going to see comments, evidence disproving the theory, trying to shut down Gaylor, but not necessarily recognizing, I think, the extent to how much certain individuals within the Gaylor community really do need to create this representation.

[00:32:34] CRISTEN:
Another important fact in all of this is that queer Easter egg hunting is hardly exclusive to Gaylors. It's not exclusive to Taylor Swift. There is all kinds of queer reading that happens within various fandoms. Like the Harry Potter fandom, even though the book's own transphobic author gets real hostile about it. Or take One Direction. I can't tell you a single one of their songs off the top of my head, but I do know that Larry Stylinson is the fan name for the imagined queer relationship between Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson.

[00:33:22] Leah Dajches:
Gaylor's not finding evidence to support the idea that Taylor Swift could be part of the LGBTQ+ community for the most part is quite harmless. It's limited to a lot of spaces for fan communities, Discord, Tumblr, they go on these spaces, they're closed communities, and there's really, from what I've seen, not an intention to do any harm to Taylor Swift. 

And from the participants I've spoken with, they also recognize the complexity of trying to read a sexual identity onto someone, trying to infer Taylor Swift to be part of the queer community when she's not publicly identified. They recognize the complexity in terms of, oh, I wouldn't want to, you know, I don't like doing this, but it's her music and the way I'm reading it speaks so much to my queer experiences. So then I believe that she is also like me.

[00:34:24] CRISTEN:
Here's Brian Donovan again.

[00:34:27] BRIAN DONOVAN:
A lot of the Gaylors I have talked with suggest that they are faced with this dilemma that either Taylor Swift is communicating to the queer community using queer-coded symbols like the term "lavender" in the song "Lavender Haze" or the phrase, you know, "you can hear a hairpin drop." That either she is communicating and queer flagging or she is queerbaiting and she's making these coded references in an attempt to maybe expand her fan base to queer folks. 

Her marketing also has led to this as well. She released the song titled "Me" on Lesbian Visibility Day. And when she released it, she tweeted out "Me out now," which a lot of queer folks I think reasonably interpreted to suggest that she is part of their community. In the music video for "You Need to Calm Down," her hair is dyed the colors of the bisexual pride flag. And so I think that she, through both her songs and her marketing, have used queer imagery in a way that has suggested that she is part of that community. 

At other times, she has disavowed being queer. She claimed that she came up with the phrase "Lavender Haze" by watching an old Mad Men episode that used that phrase to refer to someone who is deeply in love. And that explanation, which she didn't do with any other song, angered a lot of Gaylors who thought that, you know, she was essentially disavowing any kind of queer connotation to the word lavender. And that created a big uproar in the fandom that some referred to as Lavendergate. 

And so for Hetlers, this was kind of proof positive that, you know, the Gaylors were over-interpreting the phrase "Lavender Haze." For some of the Gaylors, it suggested that Taylor Swift was kind of queerbaiting.

[00:36:54] CRISTEN:
In the case of Lavendergate, was she basically responding directly to Gaylors?

[00:37:03] BRIAN DONOVAN:
It's unclear. There is evidence that she knows that Gaylors exist. She has even liked some Gaylor videos on TikTok. Not necessarily Gaylor-specific videos, but videos from Gaylor content creators. 

And in the liner notes of her recent re-record, which is the 1989 Taylor's Version, and to paraphrase, she said that "I thought I could quell these questions and this conversation about my dating life by hanging around my friends, but people started to sexualize those friend relationships." Many interpreted that explanation to be her kind of distancing herself from the Gaylor theories. 

And so I think she is aware of the community. I think she is making steps to not alienate that community, but clearly, it's something that she is not comfortable with, I think would be a safe statement to make. 

For most of what the Gaylors are up to, which is basically, again, creating a space for queerness within the Taylor Swift fandom, I don't think it's harmful. There are Swifties who think it is harmful to Taylor's brand. And so they take umbrage about it because they feel like it's disrespectful to Taylor, you know, that Taylor has told us in different ways to kind of stop doing this. 

There was an article in the New York Times, an op-ed, that I thought was very well written and wasn't so much about Gaylor theories, but was more about how Taylor Swift's artistic text is meaningful to queer people. And it did include some, you know, I guess you might call them Gaylor moments, but it was very well done and thoughtful. And her team came out and had this very fierce disavowal of it and said that, you know, this is bringing up baseless rumors and things like that. 

And so I think that there is a kind of sensitivity to these theories that anger a lot of Swifties. But at the end of the day, she's still a billionaire. She's still selling out stadiums across the world. And so if there are Swifties who are having meetups and making TikToks about, you know, queer themes in her songs and maybe speculating about, you know, this song is actually about this person and not this boyfriend, I don't see that as being harmful to honestly anyone, and I don't see it as harmful to Taylor Swift's world dominance for sure.

[00:39:51] NEWS CLIP:
Taylor's sold-out tour has brought in millions from ticket sales and added an estimated $4.6 billion to the local economies of the cities she performed in. Taylor's impact on the economy even has a name: Swiftonomics. The impact of Taylor Swift's tour has been really enormous and we see huge increases in the demand for labor in the vicinity of the stadium, even out to a five-mile radius.

[00:40:18] CRISTEN:
Are there any real-world lessons or takeaways we can glean from all of this both political and personal conspiracy theorizing around Taylor Swift?

[00:40:32] BRIAN DONOVAN:
I think Taylor Swift has created a space for the expression of emotion that is incredibly healthy for our society, and her music speaks to the experiences of girls and young women in unique ways. 

And one thing I've heard from talking with Swifties is that her songs are like she is reading their diaries, and in turn, it feels like we as fans are reading her diary, and so there's this intimacy that's created that is allowed for the expression of emotions, good and bad, positive and negative, that I think is healthy.

I think that the attention that Taylor Swift has received, including the negative attention, including the conspiracy theories, shows the power of celebrity and fandom in American culture. And sometimes that can be uplifting, but we've also seen how celebrity can be weaponized and how when celebrities get involved with politics, sometimes there are unexpected consequences to that. 

And so I think we have to be careful what we wish for when we think about, you know, Taylor Swift's involvement in politics more generally. You know, if we are on the left and we want her to get more involved and speak out about some of these issues, I think we have to check our expectations and we have to be prepared for maybe some unexpected outcomes.

[00:42:16] CRISTEN:
Well, Brian, is there anything else that we haven't covered about Taylor Swift and conspiracy theories that you want to make sure listeners know?

[00:42:25] BRIAN DONOVAN:
This is going to sound strange, but the one conspiracy theory that is absolutely bonkers but is kind of interesting is this idea that she is the secret daughter of the Church of Satan, Anton LaVey. And that she is kind of a resurrection of Anton LaVey's daughter. 

And it is absolutely bananas, but if you look at pictures of Taylor and you look at pictures of his daughter, I can see it, you know, I can see a little resemblance there. And so that's an interesting one. It's like, it's one where, yeah, it's made up from whole cloth and it's ridiculous, but, you know, kudos to those who came up with that because, yeah, I do see the little similarity there even though it is, at the end of the day, completely ridiculous.

[00:43:17] CRISTEN:
I know I'm not going to have to, you're about to send me down a Google image rabbit hole, Brian.

. . .

[00:43:22] CRISTEN:
Thank you to Brian Donovan for his Swifty sociological expertise and for introducing me to Anton LaVey's daughter, Xena. Yes, I did go down that Google image rabbit hole and can confirm that back in the day she did kind of look like an 80s version of Taylor who might bum you a cigarette at a punk show. 

You can follow Brian on TikTok @BrianDonovan71. And thank you to Leah Dajches. You can follow Leah on Instagram @ldajches and on TikTok @ldajches13.

Conspiracy She Wrote is an Unladylike Media production created, hosted, and executive produced by me, Cristen Conger. Lushik Lotus-Lee is our producer, our engineer is Ameeta Ganatra, and music is from Blue Dot Sessions.

Up next, there is only one living pop icon who could possibly attract more conspiracy theorizing than Taylor Swift. 

And her name is Beyoncé Knowles-Carter. Giddy up!